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	<title>Comments on: Fact-Check Theater: The Cape Cod Wastewater Authority &#8211; Revisited</title>
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	<link>http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/2012/05/08/fact-check-theater-the-cape-cod-wastewater-authority-revisited/</link>
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		<title>By: Ron Beaty</title>
		<link>http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/2012/05/08/fact-check-theater-the-cape-cod-wastewater-authority-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-10936</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Beaty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 11:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/?p=1657#comment-10936</guid>
		<description>You are absolutely correct, Mr. Steinhilber, does need to explain exaclty where he obtained the figure from, at some point if and when it truly becomes relevant. ^_^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are absolutely correct, Mr. Steinhilber, does need to explain exaclty where he obtained the figure from, at some point if and when it truly becomes relevant. ^_^</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bailey</title>
		<link>http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/2012/05/08/fact-check-theater-the-cape-cod-wastewater-authority-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-10934</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 09:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/?p=1657#comment-10934</guid>
		<description>I could argue that the $27,000 figure, when doubled, is only $54,000 and thus LESS than what Steinhilber quoted. I found a precise and explicit reference to the $60,000; fudging the math to fit a counter-argument is insufficient.

I think Mr. Steinhilber needs to answer this question himself, directly, and explain where he got the $60,000 figure.

An aside: this all also ignores the fact that Mr. Ciolek himself is NOT advocating this funding approach because of its undue and unbalanced financial burden on homeowners.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Options for funding wastewater infrastructure include working within a town’s existing revenue streams, which Mr. Ciolek said, was, in the current economic climate, not viable; charging betterments, an approach he called “inherently inequitable” since betterments would be higher in less densely developed service districts; seeking a Proposition 2 1/2 override or debt exclusion, which he said was politically difficult to sell to voters; and increasing applicable rates and fees, which he called the most flexible and equitable route because every user would pay in.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could argue that the $27,000 figure, when doubled, is only $54,000 and thus LESS than what Steinhilber quoted. I found a precise and explicit reference to the $60,000; fudging the math to fit a counter-argument is insufficient.</p>
<p>I think Mr. Steinhilber needs to answer this question himself, directly, and explain where he got the $60,000 figure.</p>
<p>An aside: this all also ignores the fact that Mr. Ciolek himself is NOT advocating this funding approach because of its undue and unbalanced financial burden on homeowners.</p>
<blockquote><p>Options for funding wastewater infrastructure include working within a town’s existing revenue streams, which Mr. Ciolek said, was, in the current economic climate, not viable; charging betterments, an approach he called “inherently inequitable” since betterments would be higher in less densely developed service districts; seeking a Proposition 2 1/2 override or debt exclusion, which he said was politically difficult to sell to voters; and increasing applicable rates and fees, which he called the most flexible and equitable route because every user would pay in.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Mike Bailey</title>
		<link>http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/2012/05/08/fact-check-theater-the-cape-cod-wastewater-authority-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-10933</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 09:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/?p=1657#comment-10933</guid>
		<description>Look harder. Under &quot;issues&quot;:

TAXES

Eric will fight to stop any and all attempts to impose new county taxes on the families, seniors, and businesses of Cape Cod. Eric will work to protect residents by stopping Cape-wide sewer project proposals, which alone, could cost each homeowner over $60,000 in new taxes.

I have a screencap of the page, and I&#039;ll post it if necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look harder. Under &#8220;issues&#8221;:</p>
<p>TAXES</p>
<p>Eric will fight to stop any and all attempts to impose new county taxes on the families, seniors, and businesses of Cape Cod. Eric will work to protect residents by stopping Cape-wide sewer project proposals, which alone, could cost each homeowner over $60,000 in new taxes.</p>
<p>I have a screencap of the page, and I&#8217;ll post it if necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Beaty</title>
		<link>http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/2012/05/08/fact-check-theater-the-cape-cod-wastewater-authority-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-10921</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Beaty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 22:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/?p=1657#comment-10921</guid>
		<description>Ok, Mike, my apologies, I finally did locate the quote in question on Mr. Steinhilber&#039;s website. However, I think that I may have found the answer for you as well. REFERENCE: The Enterprise Newspaper, 06/03/2011, &quot;How Can Barnstable County Overcome Wastewater Sticker Shock?&quot; By Michael Bailey - http://capenews.net/communities/region/news/1120 - Contained within the previously-noted article, Robert Ciolek states the following: &quot;The capital costs alone break down to up to $27,000 per person, or $33,000 per property, Mr. Ciolek told the Barnstable County Board of County Commissioners this week. That, he added, is assuming that every person helped pay into such a project, which would not be the case; he said no more than half of all Cape residents—homeowners—would shoulder the financial burden.&quot;  If one takes the figure of $33,000 provided by Mr. Ciolek last summer, and then takes into consideration what he said about only one-half of the homeowners would probably actually shoulder the financial burden, then the figure of $33,000 would need to be doubled to $66,000 per property which is even 10% more than what County Commissioner Candidate Steinhilber came up with. Mr. Steinhilber more than likely underestimated the suffocating tax burden that would be thrust upon Cape Cod homeowners if such a scenario were allowed to take plance. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, Mike, my apologies, I finally did locate the quote in question on Mr. Steinhilber&#8217;s website. However, I think that I may have found the answer for you as well. REFERENCE: The Enterprise Newspaper, 06/03/2011, &#8220;How Can Barnstable County Overcome Wastewater Sticker Shock?&#8221; By Michael Bailey &#8211; <a href="http://capenews.net/communities/region/news/1120" rel="nofollow">http://capenews.net/communities/region/news/1120</a> &#8211; Contained within the previously-noted article, Robert Ciolek states the following: &#8220;The capital costs alone break down to up to $27,000 per person, or $33,000 per property, Mr. Ciolek told the Barnstable County Board of County Commissioners this week. That, he added, is assuming that every person helped pay into such a project, which would not be the case; he said no more than half of all Cape residents—homeowners—would shoulder the financial burden.&#8221;  If one takes the figure of $33,000 provided by Mr. Ciolek last summer, and then takes into consideration what he said about only one-half of the homeowners would probably actually shoulder the financial burden, then the figure of $33,000 would need to be doubled to $66,000 per property which is even 10% more than what County Commissioner Candidate Steinhilber came up with. Mr. Steinhilber more than likely underestimated the suffocating tax burden that would be thrust upon Cape Cod homeowners if such a scenario were allowed to take plance. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Beaty</title>
		<link>http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/2012/05/08/fact-check-theater-the-cape-cod-wastewater-authority-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-10920</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Beaty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 21:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/?p=1657#comment-10920</guid>
		<description>Mike, initially I simply took your word for it, but after actually checking Eric Steinhilber&#039;s new campaign website for Barnstable County Commissioner...no where do I find the verbatim statment, &quot;Eric will work to protect residents by stopping Cape-wide sewer project proposals, which alone, could cost each homeowner over $60,000 in new taxes.&quot; It appears that Mr. Steinhilber does NOT make the claim that each homeowner could pay over $60,000 in new taxes...the main claim and hype that your entire blog posting for today is based upon...which turns out be be a lot of HOT AIR...once again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, initially I simply took your word for it, but after actually checking Eric Steinhilber&#8217;s new campaign website for Barnstable County Commissioner&#8230;no where do I find the verbatim statment, &#8220;Eric will work to protect residents by stopping Cape-wide sewer project proposals, which alone, could cost each homeowner over $60,000 in new taxes.&#8221; It appears that Mr. Steinhilber does NOT make the claim that each homeowner could pay over $60,000 in new taxes&#8230;the main claim and hype that your entire blog posting for today is based upon&#8230;which turns out be be a lot of HOT AIR&#8230;once again!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/2012/05/08/fact-check-theater-the-cape-cod-wastewater-authority-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-10917</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 19:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/?p=1657#comment-10917</guid>
		<description>But Mike!  If you insist that I back my shrill accusations with actual facts, the lack thereof makes them far less accusatory.  Indeed, I may soon find myself with no substance behind me at all!  Which means I&#039;ll have no other choice than to ramp up my shrillness, in order to compensate.

What we need around here is a return visit from the gun nuts.  Those guys *really* know how fabricate themselves some outrage!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Mike!  If you insist that I back my shrill accusations with actual facts, the lack thereof makes them far less accusatory.  Indeed, I may soon find myself with no substance behind me at all!  Which means I&#8217;ll have no other choice than to ramp up my shrillness, in order to compensate.</p>
<p>What we need around here is a return visit from the gun nuts.  Those guys *really* know how fabricate themselves some outrage!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bailey</title>
		<link>http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/2012/05/08/fact-check-theater-the-cape-cod-wastewater-authority-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-10913</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 17:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/?p=1657#comment-10913</guid>
		<description>The full sentence reads: &quot;While the cost estimates presented in this report are conceptual and based on a uniform set of assumptions, they are supported by a review of actual data for nine example projects.&quot;

That is still more of a factual basis than any argument to the contrary. I repeat: if someone knows of any documentation of any kind that refutes the report&#039;s findings and backs its premises with sound data, post it here. Post a link and let everyone read it and draw their own conclusions based on fact.

This will be the last comment I allow on this tangent. If someone has a response to what my post was actually about, i.e., that Mr. Steinhilber&#039;s quote was inaccurate, I&#039;ll allow it, but no more pointless circular debates about the county wastewater report. Stay on topic, folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The full sentence reads: &#8220;While the cost estimates presented in this report are conceptual and based on a uniform set of assumptions, they are supported by a review of actual data for nine example projects.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is still more of a factual basis than any argument to the contrary. I repeat: if someone knows of any documentation of any kind that refutes the report&#8217;s findings and backs its premises with sound data, post it here. Post a link and let everyone read it and draw their own conclusions based on fact.</p>
<p>This will be the last comment I allow on this tangent. If someone has a response to what my post was actually about, i.e., that Mr. Steinhilber&#8217;s quote was inaccurate, I&#8217;ll allow it, but no more pointless circular debates about the county wastewater report. Stay on topic, folks.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Beaty</title>
		<link>http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/2012/05/08/fact-check-theater-the-cape-cod-wastewater-authority-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-10912</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Beaty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 17:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/?p=1657#comment-10912</guid>
		<description>PLEASE TAKE NOTE that the report in question, itself, clearly states that its cost figures are merely &quot;conceptual&quot; and BASED UPON  &quot;ASSUMPTIONS&quot;, NOT concrete fact or a readily identifiable reference resource!!- &quot;Comparison of Costs for Wastewater Managment Systems Applicable to Cape Cod (2010),&quot; by the Barnstable County Wastewater Cost Task  Force - Page 3 (third paragraph from the bottom) - &quot;... the cost estimates presented in this report are conceptual and based on a uniform set of assumptions...&quot;,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PLEASE TAKE NOTE that the report in question, itself, clearly states that its cost figures are merely &#8220;conceptual&#8221; and BASED UPON  &#8220;ASSUMPTIONS&#8221;, NOT concrete fact or a readily identifiable reference resource!!- &#8220;Comparison of Costs for Wastewater Managment Systems Applicable to Cape Cod (2010),&#8221; by the Barnstable County Wastewater Cost Task  Force &#8211; Page 3 (third paragraph from the bottom) &#8211; &#8220;&#8230; the cost estimates presented in this report are conceptual and based on a uniform set of assumptions&#8230;&#8221;,</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bailey</title>
		<link>http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/2012/05/08/fact-check-theater-the-cape-cod-wastewater-authority-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-10911</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 17:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/?p=1657#comment-10911</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Actual cost information was obtained from over 30 existing wastewater treatment facilities, located largely in southeastern Massachusetts. The data were carefully reviewed to be sure they included all pertinent cost items.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That is from page one of the report. This is from page three:

&lt;blockquote&gt;While the cost estimates presented in this report are conceptual and based on a uniform set of assumptions, they are supported by a review of actual data for nine example projects.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

On page six:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Data were obtained from the following sources for this study: Interviews with suppliers of treatment systems; Discussions with construction contractors and developers; Data available from the Massachusetts Alternative Septic System Test Center; Reports from the New Jersey Pinelands Commission&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Page 45 on lists the facilities used to provide the key data cited in the report.

The report explains its methodology and contains supportive data for its findings. Disliking the findings, or the man who compiled the data, or the county that sponsored the report does not disprove the data&#039;s accuracy -- nor does simply saying &quot;Prove the report is accurate.&quot; That&#039;s Obama Birther logic, and it unnecessarily muddies a complex situation. The burden of proof here is on the Doubting Thomases. If anyone has sound evidence that contradicts anything in that report, present it here. I welcome it.

Finally: none of this refutes the main point of this post: that the number Mr. Steinhilber quoted was inaccurate in that it was attached to the wrong wastewater treatment model. Again, someone provide evidence to the contrary. Until that happens, I stand by my conclusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Actual cost information was obtained from over 30 existing wastewater treatment facilities, located largely in southeastern Massachusetts. The data were carefully reviewed to be sure they included all pertinent cost items.</p></blockquote>
<p>That is from page one of the report. This is from page three:</p>
<blockquote><p>While the cost estimates presented in this report are conceptual and based on a uniform set of assumptions, they are supported by a review of actual data for nine example projects.</p></blockquote>
<p>On page six:</p>
<blockquote><p>Data were obtained from the following sources for this study: Interviews with suppliers of treatment systems; Discussions with construction contractors and developers; Data available from the Massachusetts Alternative Septic System Test Center; Reports from the New Jersey Pinelands Commission</p></blockquote>
<p>Page 45 on lists the facilities used to provide the key data cited in the report.</p>
<p>The report explains its methodology and contains supportive data for its findings. Disliking the findings, or the man who compiled the data, or the county that sponsored the report does not disprove the data&#8217;s accuracy &#8212; nor does simply saying &#8220;Prove the report is accurate.&#8221; That&#8217;s Obama Birther logic, and it unnecessarily muddies a complex situation. The burden of proof here is on the Doubting Thomases. If anyone has sound evidence that contradicts anything in that report, present it here. I welcome it.</p>
<p>Finally: none of this refutes the main point of this post: that the number Mr. Steinhilber quoted was inaccurate in that it was attached to the wrong wastewater treatment model. Again, someone provide evidence to the contrary. Until that happens, I stand by my conclusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Beaty</title>
		<link>http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/2012/05/08/fact-check-theater-the-cape-cod-wastewater-authority-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-10909</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Beaty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 16:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://capenews.net/blogs/snark-infested_waters/?p=1657#comment-10909</guid>
		<description>...thank you for your candid response, Mike! ...and just so that we are on the same page about this topic...until the data contained within the content of the aforementioned county report that you so reverently hold up as THE WASTEWATER BIBLE, then neither do the rest of us on Cape Cod need to have any good reason to believe in its complete and total accuracy until such time that its authors authoratively PROVE ITS ACCURACY!  &quot;Ciolek,&quot; that name sounds familiar...oh yes, the gentleman who once worked for the MWRA, and also provides political contributions to the re-election campaign of current County Commissioner Sheila Lyons, one of Eric Steinhilber&#039;s two Democratic opponents...interesting how small the political realm truly is here on Cape Cod...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;thank you for your candid response, Mike! &#8230;and just so that we are on the same page about this topic&#8230;until the data contained within the content of the aforementioned county report that you so reverently hold up as THE WASTEWATER BIBLE, then neither do the rest of us on Cape Cod need to have any good reason to believe in its complete and total accuracy until such time that its authors authoratively PROVE ITS ACCURACY!  &#8220;Ciolek,&#8221; that name sounds familiar&#8230;oh yes, the gentleman who once worked for the MWRA, and also provides political contributions to the re-election campaign of current County Commissioner Sheila Lyons, one of Eric Steinhilber&#8217;s two Democratic opponents&#8230;interesting how small the political realm truly is here on Cape Cod&#8230;</p>
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